Good for the gamer but is it good for the Industry?
So anyone who is a wargamer will have noticed that over the
last few years we are seeing a lot of skirmish rules sets coming out, one thing
these have in common is most are coming from small companies or even one person
productions. I asked myself why this was, I know many large companies have
backed rules sets but I question if they really want to see them.
Why would I think this you may ask, it all about the money
for our favourite figure company to produce new sculpts they need us to keep
buying lots of the older ones. The thing about skirmish games (and the reason
many gamers love them) is that for as little as £30-40 you can have a force
that you can play with.
Compare this with an army to play a full scale battle
game and you are looking a £200-£300 even for a mid size army.
I guess for an example of skirmish Vs Battle you need to
look at GW they produce good skirmish game’s (Mordheim and Necromunda) but soon
stop supporting them while they pile all their efforts into WFB and 40K.
I am not saying that skirmish games will kill our hobby but
I could see smaller companies putting less money into new figures if they know
they will only sell small amounts do not forget they will have a set number of
figures they have to sell before they even start making profit. I love a good
skirmish game as much as the next gamer but I think if we want to see our hobby
grow and be worth the investment for companies we need to remember big battles
too
Just my pennies worth,
Peace James
Hi James,
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing to say that a vendor HAS to produce miniatures to support their rule set. This is especially true in the historical space where virtually every period and scale is at least catered for if not oversupplied already.
Indeed it makes sense for small operations to avoid producing their own miniatures until such time as they are established and profitable. Sculpting time, metal and molds are expensive outlays. The cost to design, produce and ship rules is significantly less than that for miniatures, especially given the digital climate we now live in.
You could also argue that by not producing your own line of miniatures as a start up you increase your potential market as a publisher. There are plenty of people willing to give a new rule set a go with existing figures.
The Gruntz 15mm sci-fi rule set is a perfect example of this sort of approach...
I think skirmish is the only way forward with 28mm figures. Like you said 30-40 figures per side is affordable. I don't think I'll ever buy another 25mm period, they're just too expensive. 15mm or 6mm all the way I'm afraid!!
ReplyDeleteUnless you are fortunate to have someone present you with 2 fantastic 28mm Armies (who could that have happened to I wonder?)
ReplyDeleteInteresting post for sure. Though I disagree with the idea that skirmish games will damage the industry, in fact I think the opposite.
ReplyDelete28mm players will continue to buy extra units for their armies unless they already have reached saturation point. The supply due to demand of sabot bases proves that some wargamers are using some figures for dual purpose, basing them for skirmish but being available for such as Impetus is one example.
Saga has already been mentioned, I am sure Griping Beast and others have seen a surge in sales of parts of their ranges. Figure A may well not make enough to clear profit but figure B pays for both. Command figures often languish in the red as so few are needed in the big games where skirmish actually has a higher leader to pleb ratio.
Also we are terrible for army creep. So I have my 30-40 figures for this set of rules, I play it half a dozen times, like the rules so what other forces can I buy?
Andrew brings up the point about companies converting to plastic but I think some of his reasoning is off. Plastic moulds cost a hell of a lot more than moulds for metal figures so such as the Perry Twins moving over to plastic is not a sign of them looking for a cheaper option with a shrinking market. The advantage of plastic figure moulds is that they do not wear out, also they don't loose quality so the level of flash should remain fairly constant. Indeed you often see metal command figures as a plastic command mould has very little chance of breaking even. The other advantage with plastic moulds is the original sculpted figure can be much larger than the production figures and shrunk to scale. This allows a lot more detail to be added.
I don't actually play that much in the way of skirmish games and paint up only WWII 28mm all the rest are 15mm armies and 6mm BIG armies.
Ian
One thing I've noticed with Saga is that most people will start with 1 warband and then add several more, so the impact on figure manufacturers isn't as bad as you might think. In fact, it's quite possible that they will end up buying more figures than if they were doing so for "battle" rules.
ReplyDeleteFor myself, I prefer 6mm & 15mm for battles, 28mm for skirmish (for SF skirmish I'll do 15mm and 25/28mm).
Its an interesting point James.
ReplyDeleteI personally don't see Skirmish games as reducing sales, rather increasing them. I own probably less than 20 Napoleonic figures not due to lack of interest in the period but because to get a serious force that I could do anything with I would have to spend a significant amount of money and time painting them up.
By comparison my favoured "period" VBCW is primarily a skirmish game. I started with the 30 or so figures one requires but despite this have collected up enough to probably field a a light company on a one to one basis now!
I think its the psychological factor whilst Skirmish games only require 30 or so figures to have a go, most of us keep buying and painting to have bigger and bigger battles. With the initial Skirmish benefit allowing us to con our selves (and our wallets) into thinking we wont need to pay or paint as much.
I'm not a fan of many of the Plastic figures that are out there at the moment, I find the Bolt action range to be the wrong proportions for my eye (and the weapons just look to spindly) There is something reassuring about a lead figure which a plastic one just cannot provide me with. The other benefit, I find, of lead over plastic is less clean up time, and no irritating 8 hours of gluing arms on. Others I am sure like the conversion possibilities, which for Diorama's and things I agree but I don't want to have to glue together the 30 plus figures for my platoon in addition to having to paint them. Also I hate the mold lines you get on plastic figures, the metal ones are easier to remove (in my opinion).
I think the issue comes down to a combination of economics and effort. Skirmish games are a lot less expensive to get into, which is always helpful in tougher economic times. The cost advantage may not maintain over time as players choose to add different factions etc but the cost advantage from start to first game is clear.
ReplyDeleteI think a more important factor is the effort advantage skirmish games have over the more traditional "large army" formats. Hobbyists are presented with a range of entertainment alternatives that have much less effort to get into - computer games, board games and miniature/board game combos (for example X-Wing from Fantasy Flight). I feel skirmish games like Saga are a natural response to the "effort gap" and to bringing new players into the hobby.
The critical issue for the hobby is not the size of each of our armies but how many of us there are. I think people will spend the same amount of $ on average over time but rather than spend a 2years+ building that 500 figure Roman army a player might build multiple Saga and Bolt action factions. The more important issue is the wide end of the hobby funnel - how do we recruit new players to grow the hobby and, therefore, grow the market for our manufacturers to sell to.
I think skirmish gaming is here to stay and is a logical response to competition from other forms of entertainment.
In one word (well three actually)
ReplyDeleteRules sell Figures
In times of economic decline the skirmish game is the figure manufacturers lifeline with possible expansions available when the economic growth is back in town. I am sure that wihtout Saga/Dux Britaniarum Gripping Beast (to name but one) might be in serious problems keeping their boat floating. Personally I dont know anyone who has bought a large metal wargames army in the last 2 maybe 3 years, Skirmish forces is another mather all together...
I started as a skirmish gamer and, if my experience is anything to go by, it certainly hasn't limited me buying figures! As an example, I play WW2 in 28mm as large skirmishes with roughly a platoon a side - I just did an inventory of my 28mm WW2 collection and am embarrassed to admit I have over 500 figures now! I think skirmish is a great way to allow people in without a huge initial investment and that could be the initial fix which gets them hooked!
ReplyDeleteI don't know anyone who can simply stop at ten figures or so. They usually end up getting basic forces both sides, then more options for those basic forces, then another faction or unit type, etc. Next thing you know, they have a 100 figures and a lot of options.
ReplyDeleteThe good thing about mom-and-pop miniatures operations is that they can handle better the small orders and fewer customers. Many would die if they got the orders that they dream of. Some operations actually do it to support their own gaming habit and make it a tax write-off (hobby as a business). You got to love them.
No, I think skirmish gaming is for the good. Almost every game shop I know of that sells GW products, has an "escalation" league where the players start out with very small forces – often the very size you mention – and then build that force over time. Small figure counts are the gateway to more purchases.